Comments on: Player-Coaches as Kings, Prophets and Priests http://www.middlechildrenofhistory.info/2009/11/05/player-coaches-as-kings-prophets-and-priests/ Mon, 16 Jan 2012 10:33:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Toby Neal http://www.middlechildrenofhistory.info/2009/11/05/player-coaches-as-kings-prophets-and-priests/#comment-28 Toby Neal Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:01:22 +0000 http://www.middlechildrenofhistory.info/?p=120#comment-28 Hey Shane. Thanks for the reference to Paul Borden. What do you think is the right response when someone finds themself ineffective and unfruitful? And what ought our confidence be in in planning fruitfulness? Surely we both agree it's the soverign God who gives the growth but how much should we put our confidence in the means he uses to bring the growth (Romans 10)? I am not sure if Driscoll is being unfair? He is simply saying what scripture says. If a guy has made great sacrifices he is one of the tough men 2 Timothy 2 is speaking about. I don't think he is calling us to judge our peers but to test ourselves and those we appoint to be elders. In my humble opionion I think in the beginning of a church plant the missionary functions as the pastor. As the church grows the missionary can either train up others to take over his pastoral responsibilities while he focuses on the mission (Driscoll) or continue to pastor and thereby limit the ability to grow (my understanding of what the Crowded House has chosen). Nevertheless I still believe that God has given the gospel to preachers which BOTH pastors Christians and saves non Christians. In that sense you can't really separate the pastor from missiologist/preacher. Yet I am saying that in a big church this will almost be the extent of his pastoring. The reason for the delineation is, as Driscoll helpfully points out, so that the church planter tays doggedly focused on mission. Hey Shane. Thanks for the reference to Paul Borden. What do you think is the right response when someone finds themself ineffective and unfruitful? And what ought our confidence be in in planning fruitfulness? Surely we both agree it’s the soverign God who gives the growth but how much should we put our confidence in the means he uses to bring the growth (Romans 10)?

I am not sure if Driscoll is being unfair? He is simply saying what scripture says. If a guy has made great sacrifices he is one of the tough men 2 Timothy 2 is speaking about. I don’t think he is calling us to judge our peers but to test ourselves and those we appoint to be elders.

In my humble opionion I think in the beginning of a church plant the missionary functions as the pastor. As the church grows the missionary can either train up others to take over his pastoral responsibilities while he focuses on the mission (Driscoll) or continue to pastor and thereby limit the ability to grow (my understanding of what the Crowded House has chosen). Nevertheless I still believe that God has given the gospel to preachers which BOTH pastors Christians and saves non Christians. In that sense you can’t really separate the pastor from missiologist/preacher. Yet I am saying that in a big church this will almost be the extent of his pastoring. The reason for the delineation is, as Driscoll helpfully points out, so that the church planter tays doggedly focused on mission.

]]> By: shane http://www.middlechildrenofhistory.info/2009/11/05/player-coaches-as-kings-prophets-and-priests/#comment-25 shane Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:53:19 +0000 http://www.middlechildrenofhistory.info/?p=120#comment-25 Hi Toby I would agree that faithfulness and effectiveness isn't a zero sum game. if you are faithful you will work hard and strategize to be effective with the energy he provides. Paul Borden in Direct Hit addresses this clearly and forcefully. we cannot pious hide behind platitudes of God's sovereignty whilst failing to be wise stewards. he goes onto to say the pastor is not just a disciple maker and evangelist but a mobilizer of disciple makers and evangelists. to fill out Paul's metaphors, the pastor is also an Ox who deserves to be fed because he is a best of burden. Sadly I think the very problem of unfair characture that is applied to Willow Creek is also applied to weak pastors by Driscoll. Its a great little tough guy pastor rift but its an unfair characture of men who have made great sacrifices. do you really think you can separate the pastor and missiologist?. Hi Toby
I would agree that faithfulness and effectiveness isn’t a zero sum game. if you are faithful you will work hard and strategize to be effective with the energy he provides.
Paul Borden in Direct Hit addresses this clearly and forcefully. we cannot pious hide behind platitudes of God’s sovereignty whilst failing to be wise stewards.

he goes onto to say the pastor is not just a disciple maker and evangelist but a mobilizer of disciple makers and evangelists.

to fill out Paul’s metaphors, the pastor is also an Ox who deserves to be fed because he is a best of burden. Sadly I think the very problem of unfair characture that is applied to Willow Creek is also applied to weak pastors by Driscoll. Its a great little tough guy pastor rift but its an unfair characture of men who have made great sacrifices.

do you really think you can separate the pastor and missiologist?.

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